along with john tobacco and steve murphy. welcome, everybody. president obama expected to tout the health care law in his state of the union on tuesday, but john, you say this law isn't doing anything, but making america sicker? >> yeah, brenda. i mean, after years, literally the last three years, barack obama's been telling americans, you won't lose your doctor, if you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance, now post-election, surprise! 7 million americans, the numbers are going higher. the cbo reports the dollars continue to go higher and really what it comes down to, we cannot afford this. small businesses can't afford to keep medicating their people and keeping them insured and at the end of the day this is just another sign of big government coming in with big plans that us, the taxpayers, just can't afford. >> well, steve, does it matter that we're losing employer-based health care plans, if more people are actually getting covered? >> yes, exactly. this plan is going to cover just about everybody. it makes me difference whether they get their heal

. the unions didn't read the bill. every time obama comes -- president obama comes out with something, they just back it no matter what, and all of a sudden they have an oops moment 'cause they realized oh, my costs go up, so please help me. i think the bottom line, they'll end up with some sort of exemption, some sort of subsidy and guess what? it will be on our backs as usual. >> i know, but it's kind of interesting, dagen, maybe expecting quid pro quo didn't happen. >> to gary's point, if they get these subsidies on top of -- these members already having health insurance, that just opens the door for handouts to anybody. will ultimately drive up the cost of this health care law even more. listen, this law was about expanding health insurance to people who didn't have it. well, union members, you have it. your costs go up. suck it up. that's the way it goes [ laughter ] >> you like that one, huh? >> charlie, they've got -- to dagen's point, they qualify for breaks -- >> it's kind of absurdity of the health care law in the first place that there is all these sort of outs, you can get

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